Stephanie Landis (00:06):

Hello and welcome to Unbabbled, a podcast that navigates the world of special education, communication, delays and learning differences. We are your host, Stephanie Landis and Meredith Kremmel, and we’re certified speech language pathologist who spend our days at the parish school in Houston helping children find their voices and connect with the world around them. We are so excited to have the Bay Area Arts Conservatory as the sponsor for this episode. The Bay Area Arts Conservatory is a dance and theater school located in League City, Texas. Their mission is to foster creative development through student education and training and performing arts for a lifetime of success through a fun and encouraging environment. They offer dance, musical theater, acting, and voice classes for children ages two to 18. For more information, check out their website @www.btx.com. As parents, we know how important it’s to find someone you trust to care for your children’s dental needs Kids 360 Pediatric Dentistry is a family-owned boutique practice where your little ones can truly feel safe and at ease while receiving the highest quality of care.

(01:16):

Located in Richmond, Texas, Dr. Maori ADI is a board certified pediatric dentist specialist with a decade of experience with compassion and honesty. She and her team provide care for infants, children, teens, and patients with special healthcare needs in their nurturing environment. Every child will receive personalized treatment tailored to their unique needs. In addition, they specialize in offering care for children with physical, emotional, developmental, cognitive, and sensory challenges. Dr. Parity is always ready and willing to listen to questions and concerns, to share some laughter, and to partner with you to care for your children. For more information, visit their website at www kids 360 pediatric dentistry.com or email them at info at kids 360 pediatric dentistry.com to get all your kids dental needs met. In this episode, we chat with Elizabeth Montero Celo, former special education teacher in the Miami-Dade Public School District and current conscious discipline master instructor Elizabeth discusses the positive impact of using conscious discipline at home and in her classroom. She highlights the changes she implemented that had the greatest impact and which elements of conscious discipline she started with and why. Elizabeth also gives advice on what she recommends parents begin with at home. Throughout the episode, she comes back to the core themes of seeing behaviors as communication, the importance of adults regulating themselves, and the importance of structure and routine. We hope that you leave this episode with one thing that you can change or implement at home to make life a little easier for you.

Stephanie Landis (03:01):

Welcome to today’s episode of Unabbled. We are so excited to have Elizabeth Montero SHEO here. She’s a master instructor for conscious discipline. She has a fantastic background in working with children with a variety of communication and special education needs, and that is exactly who we are excited to talk about. So welcome,

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (03:24):

Welcome. Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Stephanie Landis (03:28):

So I alluded a little bit to your background, but can you tell us how you got into the whole world of conscious discipline?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (03:34):

Yeah, absolutely. So I am a former special needs teacher and I’m no longer in the classroom, but initially when I was in the classroom I had no idea what to do. So that’s what definitely got me into conscious discipline. And it was very early on when I struggled, I think back to when I was in college and I just had one class in behavior management, so clearly wasn’t enough. And yeah, I struggled with classroom management, how to organize my classroom, how to organize my kids, how to organize myself, and I was a lost lamb. And so of course with crisis and conflict, you get curious and seek help and all of that, and that’s what I did. So our district brought in Dr. Becky Bailey to talk about conscious discipline and I was like, alright, I’m in. It’s got discipline in it and I have no discipline at this moment. So I am curious and and just jumped right in and started just very interested in the neuroscience of conscious discipline and all of that. And it really answered so many of my questions.

Meredith Krimmel (04:43):

And when you started learning about conscious discipline, and I imagine you started implementing some of these things in the classroom, what were some of the first things that you noticed that were changing that really hooked you into conscious discipline and made you want to explore it further and get more involved?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (04:57):

Yeah, that is a great question and it is so interesting. No one’s ever asked me, where did you begin? Most people are like, where do I begin? I don’t even know. It’s really interesting because the first little itty bitty piece, my 1% that I took on was really applying this idea of adult first, child second approach. It’s kind of like when you’re on the airplane and they tell you, you put your mask on first before you offer that to the person beside you. Makes total sense. I needed that regulation. So I really started with the piece of regulating myself first. So before I even started anything in my classroom, I was able to just practice my composure, practice my breathing, when times were going well enough so that I strengthened that muscle and got better at it when things did not go so well. And that’s where I began and that’s when I was a classroom teacher. So it wasn’t even, I had kids of my own after some of that. So it was important for me to practice some of that in my classroom before I had my own children. It was helpful.

Meredith Krimmel (06:06):

So when you started putting yourself first and focusing on your own health and wellbeing, social emotional health and wellbeing, you were able better able to assist your students and you started seeing positive changes with your classroom management as well?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (06:21):

Yeah, absolutely. I started seeing behavior not as an irritant and as something I needed to control and stop in others, but I started to see behavior more so as a form of communication. Maybe it was a child pretty much communicating that they didn’t know what to do in that moment. And many of my children had speech and language delays, so I really had to make meaning of what they were providing me with. And sometimes they didn’t provide me with a whole lot of language, but you could pick up so much on nonverbal communication as well. So yes, starting to see that behavior differently was transformational. I think for me.

Stephanie Landis (07:04):

You mentioned that you yourself are a parent. Do you use this at home?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (07:08):

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things is with conscious discipline, I tell folks it’s not something you do to others. It’s something that you just immerse yourself in so much that it’s a part of you. So it’s just who I am now. And yeah, I really focus so much in my parenting and just my human and relationships with others, coworkers the same. But as a parent, really thinking about seeing their behavior also as a call for help, and that is way harder than applying that to other people’s children. You sort of offer a little bit more grace to others and other children. And as a teacher, a lot of times we do these beautiful, amazing things all day and then we get home and it’s our own family and our own children, and we’re like, who did I turn into? So yeah, I went through all of that as well and continue to, I mean, we’re human really. Yes, it was an essential skill for sure.

Stephanie Landis (08:12):

It’s like you see in my house, I go home and by the time we hit dinner I’m like, I have regulated everyone else’s emotions all day long. I cannot do it anymore. I cannot regulate mine. I cannot regulate yours. I mean at my house it runs beautifully and smoothly. It’s so peaceful. But you’re right, it is kind of a change in mind shift for both the teachers if they’re using it in the classroom and the parents, even if it’s not something they’re doing at home, but if they’re seeing it in the classroom because it looks very different and sometimes we get the perspective, it doesn’t look like you’re doing any behavior management or you didn’t punish this child or needs to happen differently. Did you have any tips when working with your families that explained why you were doing it that way or how to help shift their mind shift too, also so that they could see it? It’s a big change for everyone.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (09:08):

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that a lot of my families started getting really curious about what we were doing in the classroom. They’d come home and they’d go, my child is taking a deep breath and they’re calling it star. What is that all about? I’m like, oh yeah, yeah, here, I’ll tell you a little bit about it. And I would share some of that. Or they’d come in and they’d go, wow. Or we’d be sitting in meetings and I’d be telling them about how terrific their child and how organized they are and how willing they are to do stuff. And families would look at me, are we talking about the same child that I have at home? Not doing all that at home? I mean, that just happens. And they got curious about what we might be doing in the classroom, and so how we structure the day, schedules, routines, predictability, all those things.

(09:55):

And so we started sharing, but I was also a home visitor. After I was in the classroom, I became a home visitor. And that was such an eye-opening moment to see also, right and ask families, I’m curious about what you all are doing at home. What are some things that are working really well at home? And if we’re together families and teachers and we’re working together obviously for the better of the child, then we see that we’re both the experts or we’re all the experts and the child and we really can connect. But yeah, I think that’s some of that. Yeah, I think connection and also predictability and structure. That’s what a lot of our families were curious about.

Meredith Krimmel (10:41):

I was, I say reading, but really listening too easy to love, difficult to discipline. As we were preparing for this, I thought, I haven’t read that in a while. I’m going to pull that back up. And I was listening to it and one of the mind shifts that we were talking about, Stephanie, that really stuck out to me was stop asking yourself, how do I make my child? Or how do I make this child and shift to what can I do to help this child want to? And when you really reframe it and think of it that way, it really helps. Well, and another part of it is bringing the child in. What is it that you need to be successful? Can you talk a little bit more about what conscious discipline looks like in terms of what the methodology is involving the child and how you really shift towards supporting the child in connection with the child versus commanding the child?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (11:32):

Yeah, absolutely. I guess there are a couple parts to that. I think the first thing is goes with our saying of the only person that you can make change yourself. And that’s really powerful. So no, my job is not to change the child’s behavior. So anyone listening to this right now should go, oh, shoot, that’s a good thing. Because I’ve been trying and it’s not been effective, mean of course we can’t, ultimately, we cannot change somebody else’s behavior. That could be a huge release. No. So it’s our job to change our own behavior if that needs changing and we’re modeling for children. So I think that that’s a really big thing. The skills that we hold should be the skills that we want our children or child to also replicate. So it’s not like back in the day we would say do as I say and not as I do now.

(12:20):

It’s like it’s do as I say and as I do. So if I’m asking a child to exhibit a skill, then I have to be willing to also live in that skill, walk in that skill and model it and parenting’s hard. And that’s being a big piece of it. The other part of it is a part that we call actually the skill of positive intent. So sort of seeing it from the child’s perspective, what was it that the child was wanting at that moment and beginning with that. So it could be you’re on the playground, child wants to stay longer, and you got to go and your child’s basically saying, no, I want to stay. I want to stay, or whatever. And a moment instead of reaching towards, no, we’re getting in the car. And that’s the end of that, starting with a bit of a pause, hear from their perspective, take that moment to be able to go, you were wanting so badly to stay just a little bit longer.

(13:18):

And that was so difficult. And it might sound like empathy. You’re holding space for another individual. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the child gets to stay on the playground. We don’t want to set them up for some false expectations, but offering some understanding first before giving ’em the information or possibly a choice or something such as, hold my hand, we’re going to the car and I’m going to keep you safe. So understanding before information can be just huge and transformational. And I think that’s a piece that if we just add in that first step, we might get a different response from them. And you’ll notice I said might, because none of this is a hundred percent, I really wish it was, it would be so much easier, but it’s not.

Stephanie Landis (14:08):

Yeah, children are not robots.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (14:11):

True.

Stephanie Landis (14:13):

You never know what you’re going to get. It sounds to me a lot that it starts with on everyone’s part, a little bit of curiosity and connection. A lot of times at our school, we’ll look at the child and be like, well, what is your plan? Sometimes I can’t even guess. You said, oh, you really wanted to keep staying at the park. But sometimes I’m looking at them, I’m like, I have no idea. And if they have enough language, I can be like, what was your plan? What are you even thinking? And then I can backtrack and work through it and go through it. But it does take a little bit of training to get into the mindset of being like that, starting with the curiosity. It’s a

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (14:54):

Big step. Yeah, you’re right. And it is such a hard piece because a lot of times we don’t know. So yes, if we have neurotypical kids or kids that have a lot of language, you might say to them you wanted to stay on the playground a little bit longer. And they’re like, no, actually I want to go down the slide. Or they can give you some of that input for our children that might be a little bit more limited in their expressive vocabulary. We have to do some mind reading and guessing, but picking up on their gestures. And of course, as we know for children who struggle with communication, how important it is to provide them with those adaptations of having visual supports, voice output devices, pictures. So that can lessen frustration. I’ve found that in my classroom, a lot of times my kids who had difficulty expressing themselves would also exhibit some of those challenging behaviors. And you’re going, well, of course that makes sense. So I don’t know exactly what it is that they want, but let’s provide them with some pictures and maybe we’ll be able to hone in on what that might be. And that was huge. I mean, the frustration level, the challenging behaviors, all of that really huge reduction. Once we started adding more of course structure and pictures so that it would help support what the child’s intention was, made it easier for me to understand what they wanted.

Stephanie Landis (16:21):

And you’ve mentioned also the structure and the predictability. Are those big aspects that you put in both in the classroom and at home?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (16:29):

Yes, absolutely. I think the classroom is already set up so organically to have structure and predictability and routine and all of those things. Of course, at home we’re a little bit more, a lot more laid back and as it should be, right? So yes, I think in the classroom it is like I always say, as a special needs teacher, I had to choreograph every single minute of the day. Any downtime or unstructured time, some chaos would definitely happen and I was outnumbered in the classroom, so there’s more of them than me, and it would just go in the wrong direction. Absolutely. Taking some of those elements of predictability and structure and that adding ’em at home, I love helping families, really working collaboratively with them to go, well, how can we structure bedtime? So a bedtime routine, something that adds predictability, a wake up routine. And those are big game changers. And I found, I’ve had great responses from families because they want things to go better. And so yeah, if a few pictures put up can really help, I always tell them it’s magical. I’ve got one magical tool. It would be yes, the structure and the visuals to support that structure.

Stephanie Landis (17:52):

Yeah, my crazy time of day is the transitioning home from school and work and into like, okay, we also have to get this done and homework and we need snacks, and we have afterschool activities at different times on every day. And sometimes we’ll have a meeting thrown in there on my end, and then it throws off the whole rest of the schedule. But giving them and starting out and building in that routine of like, this is just how we do it. This is what we do every day as soon as we get home often, unless we’ve had a rough day at school, leads to an easier transition at home. But man, it’s hard because some days you’re like, oh, nevermind, I don’t have any gas. We have to go get gas, or we have to go here and it just throws everything off. I feel like you’re right. School lends itself to a lot more predictability and routine than home does. And everybody, even, not everyone works with children, but I know that my husband will have frustrations at work too, and he gets home and he’s still fried and carrying that over. So everyone kind of carries over and they want to come home and just let it go, but it gets a little messy when you come home and just let it

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (18:57):

Go. Yes, exactly. And I use that word all the time. I go, parenting is messy. Somebody should write a book on that. And it is. And when you have been so highly structured all day in whatever profession you have and you’ve made so many big decisions all day, or you’ve led a group or an organization, man, you’re right. When you get home, you just want to turn that off and just be able to exist and not have to make any decisions. A decision such as what we’re going to eat for dinner could be catastrophic when you have been making all those decisions all day. So yes, decision fatigue is a thing. The cool thing is when you set up a lot of those structures, they just start to happen on their own and start to organize your kids. It’s kind of like we’re lending them in essence, our executive function, which is really our organization or time management, all those kinds of things.

(19:59):

And then they’ll kind of take over what would happen in the classroom. It would be if I would forget a part of the routine or I would forget, I’ll be like, oh, they’re not going to notice if I just take this one little piece out. They’re like, no, we have to do the song for going outside or So they will follow that. They will lead it. And then you can kind of changing of the guards allow them to really have some of that shared power at home and see the importance of those things. It really is amazing, and I can attest to that. My kids are now 18 and soon to be 23 and lending them those skills when they’re little as much as possible, even though I look back and I go, I didn’t even what I was doing. I mean, I still don’t know what I’m doing, honestly.

(20:50):

So it’s kind of day by day. So I think that it’s really neat to see them at this age and you go, whoa, they’ve got some organization, they’ve got some time management. This is really, it was worth it to do all those things on the front end. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t have perfect children. Not at all. And they still don’t have a fully developed prefrontal lobe of the brain. So they’re still, and they’re not going to get there until about 24, 25 years old. So there’s oopses, there’s all the things, but to notice your kids with some organization that really you’ve been passing on to them is really something to celebrate. So it can be done.

Meredith Krimmel (21:33):

So if there’s a parent listening who’s struggling with discipline at home or a teacher out there listening, would you suggest putting in routines and structure? Is that usually your first recommendation? Let’s start there, or do you have any other recommendations of where people should start?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (21:47):

Yeah, yeah, great. We have what we follow a model or a roadmap, so to speak, in conscious discipline. That’s always safety connection and then problem solving. So forming safety and part of that safety is predictability. So yeah, embed some predictability in there, which is I’ve got to regulate myself, model it for them, all of that. Those are elements of providing safety. It’s not just making sure that the doors are locked and that the kids are safe or buckled in their seat. Those things are important, but we’re talking about more of that social emotional safety, that emotional safety and providing almost a felt sense of safety so that they know that they’re loved, they’re cared for. All of that is safety. And then the next piece of connection and connection really is what’s at the root of all cooperation. So if we want more willingness, we want more cooperation.

(22:42):

I mean, of course what parent doesn’t, it’s really to think about how can I take the time to connect with my child? So if they’re a younger child, we have things called I love you rituals, and those are just playful games. You can create your own. They’re kind of like just lovely peekaboo type games. And those are generally for birth to eight, and you can do it beyond that, of course. And other elements of connection really could be just wrestling with your child and doing playful things like that at home. I know that in my household it’s always been my husband who’s in charge of the roughhousing and wrestling. And that’s great because that builds executive function as well. So it teaches children how to set limits and boundaries, the playfulness of that, and it forms such great connection. So if we have that safety and then connection, it’s amazing because then a child can learn, yes, then a child can learn what to do next time can reflect on some of their choices.

(23:39):

So yeah, I would begin with safety elements, build on that with moments of connection, which could just be spending five minutes a day of uninterrupted time, putting our cell phone away and our gadgets and all the things, and just having that together time that might look like, and I love you ritual, it might look like just shooting some hoops with my child outside or sitting next to them when they’re watching their favorite show and asking them about their things that they like. That’s connection. And it’s amazing what happens from there when they do feel that safety and connection.

Meredith Krimmel (24:14):

And you talk about being playful with your children, and it’s something that sometimes I think is so easily forgotten or left out of the day because we’re so busy in the hustle and bustle of life with school and work and afterschool activities. Just finding those moments here and there just to play together can be, it’s a lot easier said than done. It can be really hard to remember, and everyone enjoys it when you do it. So it’s just trying to get it in the day.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (24:39):

Yeah, no, definitely. I think I said this just the other day, I said, okay, if I could tell my younger mother self at that time, which I did this a lot of times, but when your kids come over to you and sometimes they come over to you to ask to play at the most an opportune time where you’re in the middle of something, man, if I could just at that moment say to myself, just drop everything and connect with them as they get older, you’re going to hope that they come back to connect with you again. Drop everything. And of course, not all the time, that’s just not always possible. We do have a lot, but on occasion, I don’t know if I could get about 70% of the time I drop everything. I think that’s a win.

Stephanie Landis (25:27):

I think of Dr. Becky Bailey when I’m feeling really stressed and I look around and I see that my family’s stressed and I’m like, man, we need some joy juice, which is totally odd thing, but very conscious discipline of we just need to inject some happiness and joy and get those positive neurotransmitters in our brains going and shift from the stress to the connection and the joy. And I’m just like, we need joy juice right now.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (25:53):

Exactly. Exactly. So if you’re familiar with joy juice, that’s exactly it. And just a bit further too, that’s where we get our dopamine and our dopamine is those feel-good chemicals of the brain. Also our oxytocin, which is those the love hormone. So where we seek that dopamine and where we crave it, that’s where we get it. And we can get that through face-to-face connection with others. We can do it through video games or scrolling through our Facebook or Instagram or going on TikTok and then you go, whoa, I can’t get that time back. That’s a lot of time on those. That’s because it’s just tapping into that dopamine. So when we can shift that over to as much as possible, more so those face-to-face connection or moments, we also call those serve and which is lovely and kind of like a tennis match, that connection, that playfulness and back and forth, that’s where you get that joy juice. It’s pretty good stuff. And it’s legal in all states. I dunno if that’s important to anybody, but just in

Stephanie Landis (27:01):

Case all of this sounds fantastic. Is it a quick fix?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (27:05):

No, I wish. I wish. No, it’s not. It’s hard. The struggle is real. That’s one of the first things I tell schools that I work with and agencies that I don’t have a quick fix. It doesn’t exist. If anybody ever tells you there’s a quick fix, they’re lying to you or it’s not. It takes time because connection and relationships take time. And yeah, it’s really about, of course, our mindset. Am I choosing to see the behavior differently? That takes time. I got to work on that and I teach this, and I still go back to judgment oftentimes, and I catch myself going, all right, I can see this differently. So I’ve got to see that behavior differently. I have to be willing to intentionally really go in differently. How am I going to respond? And that really is what higher centers of the brain help us do is respond differently to the behavior.

(28:01):

And that’s really why we call it conscious discipline. It is really becoming more mindful of our practices, our connection, and our children. And that takes a lot of time and it’s totally worth it. There’s no end in this. We have folks that go, okay, do I just go to one day workshop and I’ve got it? Or maybe if I just read easy to love, difficult to discipline, then I’m going to be the greatest parent ever. Of course not. It doesn’t work that way. We’re continuously learning and growing from it. I’m right there included in that massive group because there’s a lot of growth to be made. It’s pretty cool.

Stephanie Landis (28:40):

And I think another layer of difficulty is that things that sometimes will work and I’m like, oh, this is a go-to phrase I can use, or I love you ritual with one kid does not work with another kid both here at work and in my own home, and then I’m res scrambling and I have to go back and relearn and figure it out.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (29:00):

Yeah, that’s right. So yes, it’s not a quick fix and it’s not a one size fits all because it really is about getting to know each child in different ways. Of course, their interests, their needs, their frustrations, all of that. So yeah, absolutely. It’s not a one size fits all. And yeah,

Stephanie Landis (29:19):

Because for my daughter, take a deep breath is an instant trigger for her. I just might as well have walked up to her and been calm down those two things, and it just sends her spiraling. But with other kids, I can be like, oh, it looks like we need to take a deep breath. And they’re like, oh, good. So we went through a lot of trial and error of what cues and fun breathing techniques would she be into without her being like, oh, I know what you’re trying to do. You trying to get me to calm down and I am not ready to calm down. I’m not going to, I’m going to escalate.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (29:53):

Those of us who are teachers maybe go home and then our kids might be like, don’t use that teacher voice on me. Or maybe your spouse does something like that. And it’s like, oh gosh, they’re right. They’re right. That’s so true though. Even with younger kids, you can kind of typically use the same sort of language in the script, so to speak. And you got to change that up obviously once your kids get older because it’s not about manipulating their behavior and all of that, as you can imagine. But it’s really about holding the intentionality behind it rather than, did I get the words right, did I say it right? Did I, yeah. And that’s going to help us to individualize I think, how we respond to our kids. And then it’s amazing how when you look at this and you just go, oh wow, it’s just a part of who I am now. I kind of go with this. Even if you were raised different than the way you’re wanting to raise your children, that’s possible.

Stephanie Landis (30:44):

One of the things you said before we jumped on was having grace with ourselves. And it seems like you brought that up again. And also you’ve brought up looking at the intentionality behind it, both in yourself and in your kids. And it seems like we are conscious discipline using the same techniques for ourselves to hold that space. And that can be hard for perfectionistic parents that I dunno any of.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (31:10):

Yes, me neither. I can’t even imagine. So yes, absolutely. So in conscious discipline, you all might be familiar with this. So we have seven skills of conscious discipline. Things include composure and assertiveness and encouragement and choices, positive intent, empathy, consequences, all these things and these skills that are generally they exist so that we can help regulate the child are exactly what we need to regulate ourselves, which really goes back to yes, I have to be willing to see the behavior differently. So I have to perceive the behavior differently in order for me to access my composure. So it’s like an inside job. I’ve got to make sure that I am guiding myself, which is really what self-regulation is. I’ve got to guide with my inner speech as an adult. I can do that. I can guide with myself with my inner speech. I can offer myself empathy and grace.

(32:07):

I can let myself know and give myself encouragement. I’ve got this, I can do this. And that’s how I can hold the intentionality behind whatever it is that I do. So self-regulation is something that I can do now are young children, especially eight and younger, and kids that don’t have inner speech just yet, the kids that can’t read silently do not yet have a lot of that. So that’s why we refer to ourselves as their co-regulation. I’m going to practice this and kind of guide you and give you some outer language that eventually is going to be your inner language. So young children don’t have that self-regulation just yet. So when they want a toy, they take it because they don’t have that inner speech going, this may not be a great idea. Why don’t you put your hand out and say my turn? So we very patiently model this, teach it, play in it as much as possible so that eventually it sticks. And it really is, it’s really cool in the classroom when you start seeing, and sometimes those skills jump online at the end of the school year and you’re like, oh no, I get to, but it’s because we’ve been doing it since day one that it finally kicks in and sticks.

Meredith Krimmel (33:21):

And with us being the model and being essentially their inner voice, which becomes their own self-talk does feel like a little bit a lot of pressure as a parent because we often don’t model, as you were saying, do as I say and as I do. Parents aren’t historically the best at doing that when kids are fighting. And then you come in with a loud voice like stop fighting and figure it out. And I’m thinking, how often do I just stop fighting and figure it out when I’m upset? It doesn’t happen that easily. And then I think if you’re yelling at your child then saying, why would you do that and how could you do that? That becomes the things that they say to themself. So I know we’re not perfect, and it does feel like a lot of pressure, but if you shift your mind set to like, okay, right now, what would I want my child to say to themself in this moment can be an easier way to kind of reframe my own own thinking as a parent of two children who they fight they’re children.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (34:15):

Exactly, exactly. And life is going to happen. Yeah, that’s why I guess I kind of take on that 70, 75% rule. It is a high expectation that we hold for ourselves and there’s no 100% anything myself the same Dr. Becky Bailey who created this approach the same. But if I can get it just ideal, if I can just be my brilliant self 70, 75% of the time, I’m good with that. I am good with that. Yes, we are going to have those times where we model behavior that we definitely don’t want to see repeated or thrown back in our face at some point because we’ve all had that moment where you look at your child or you watch how your kids talk to each other and you’re going, is this what I do? Just at the worst possible moment. But a key thing also for those of us who are co-parenting and you have two in the room or two adults in the home or more, your relationship with the other adult in that space and how you model conflict resolution, how you model conversations and discussions when you don’t see eye to eye, that speaks volumes.

(35:32):

So if we can focus on the adult comradery and connection, then you’re modeling it. You’re definitely doing that. And I say that to teachers when we’ve got two teachers in a classroom, really your relationship, the two of you is almost more important than the one between you and the child. So what we say to each other, what the adults say to each other is almost even more important than what we’re saying to the child. So if we focus on that piece, then we’re modeling what we’re asking them to do. And that goes, yeah, with exactly what you just mentioned.

Meredith Krimmel (36:09):

I used to say when I worked in the classroom that I felt like my paraeducator and I were in a marriage, it felt like a marriage, and those were all of our children. And because it does, it’s such an important relationship for the function of the classroom.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (36:22):

Yeah, that’s the one I say, that’s the relationship in the classroom. That’s the one that you should stay in for the children.

Stephanie Landis (36:31):

Speaking of having more than one child at home and those moments of conflict, do you have any tips for parents other than first making sure you’re regulated when you jump in of how to navigate those moments just full of big energy and big feelings and Yeah,

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (36:52):

Definitely to

Stephanie Landis (36:52):

Every story and everything that makes it complicated.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (36:56):

And each individual in that conflict wants to be heard, wants to be validated, and really truly wants a solution. So it’s really neat. Kids do want to find solutions to their problems and issues, and they’re willing to confront them, definitely more so than adults at times. We kind of dodge those. Something that my go-to is the idea of, and this might be kind of tricky depending on the conflict, but just sort of a roadmap rep for this or a sort of script or so, and it’s really go to the child or go to the child who’s felt intruded upon first. We don’t usually do that. We, we’ve notoriously gone to the one who did the hitting and we’re like, why’d you hit how many times of it? That’s not nice. Go think about it. And that’s not been helpful at all. So instead I really go to the child that felt intruded upon, and then I typically, and it depends on their level of understanding, I’ll give you a couple versions.

(37:59):

So it might be to ask the child, are you okay with that? Or if it’s a child that’s got less or more limited language, I might say, your face is telling me that you’re not okay with that. And I start with that because I think it’s important for the child who’s felt intruded upon to have a voice, have a big voice, and help build up that assertiveness and being able to teach others how they want to be treated. So I start with that and maybe they say, no, I didn’t like it. Or you can see their face and all of that. And then I go to the child who maybe did the hitting, if that’s the situation, and I start with positive intent. And what was the intention? Maybe it was that they wanted the toy, maybe it was that they wanted some time on their own to play independently or what have you.

(38:46):

So let’s say they wanted something that the other child was holding the remote or something. I start with that you wanted the remote and you didn’t know what else to do. So a little bit of that understanding when you want the remote say, can I have the remote or put their hand out? And so really it’s the idea is go to that child to let them know that what they’re trying to communicate makes sense. It may not be appropriate. They hit or they cursed or they did something that wasn’t okay. But we want to start off with that. Alright, that makes sense that you went to those actions and those were your behaviors because you were so incredibly frustrated at that moment. So I think I start with that a little bit and then shift to what they can do instead of, and that’s a pattern you kind of stick with.

(39:39):

And I got to tell you, so when my kids were little, we stuck to that pattern pretty much so that then they were able to solve a lot of their conflicts on their own because I would, sometimes they’d come to me, a lot of times they’d come to me for help and kind of have to be Switzerland. That was hard. Between your two kids, you always have one that’s a little bit spicier than the other. It just seems to happen that way. I don’t know. So we want to make sure that we’re not taking sides, but we’re actually hearing perspectives and anyways, and it got to the point really where my kids would resolve their conflicts in a very similar pattern that we had started. And again, that’s not a quick fix. That’s just sort of getting the ball in motion. So again, go to the child who felt intruded upon, build up that assertive voice, then go to the child who did the hurtful action, let’s say, and offer understanding and possibly a different way to express that that would be appropriate. I know that’s a lot, but general pattern.

Stephanie Landis (40:46):

No, it is, and I love that giving the assertive voice so that kids know how to be like, no, this is how I want you to treat me. Because it makes a huge difference sometimes, especially in our setting, a child is doing behavior and their intent is to try and play or gain their attention or maybe even something that’s more complicated and their intent is coming out with them, hitting them or pushing them, and you’re like, I don’t like to be pushed, just say my name. But without that level of building it in typical behavior management, you’re just like, tell him don’t push me, but you don’t. It’s like, okay, well, he’s still like, I don’t know what to do then.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (41:31):

Yeah, there’s exactly,

Stephanie Landis (41:32):

I only have the skill of pushing you. Nobody’s building that underlying skill, and we’re still not teaching children that not only can you tell people what you don’t want, you can blatantly tell them how you do want to be treated. I don’t want you to call me that name. I want you to call me by my name and you ask me for something. Or just teaching people the kids, you have a voice and you have a right to be able to, in a kind, assertive way, speak up for yourself in those moments. And then it also, as you said, lets them problem solve back and forth so that they’re not running constantly to you and at home. It’s easier if you only have two or three that are constantly running to you, and it feels like tattling all the time. But in a classroom there’s constant, during, like you said, those downtime, if it’s not highly structured, that they’re all just bothering each other intentionally or unintentionally, and you could spend your whole day just whack-a-mole, like, okay, don’t do this, don’t do this, don’t do this. But if you can teach the kids to just turn and be like, don’t look at my paper next time, ask me for help, then it’s so much easier than like, oh, Stephanie, they’re copying off of me again and interrupting. It just builds a nice flow to give them that power too.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (42:46):

Yeah, that’s a big one. And the other one that we sometimes too is we force our children to apologize, and it’s really hard to force someone to apologize in a heartfelt way. I mean, when we were forced to apologize as a kid, as kids, and I’m middle child, so it was never my fault. It was always my brother or my sister. We were forced to apologize. It was like, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. Did not hold the intention of an apology. It was just one of those things. Then of course, the next step was that kids sort of fall into, and I would get a lot of this in the classroom too. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I said, I’m sorry. That’s my get out of jail free card. It’s like, well, that’s one way of doing things. But yeah, I prefer the teaching them how to use their assertive voice and how to help shape the behavior that they were wanting instead or the appropriate.

(43:46):

So what, instead of doing this, do this instead. Instead of calling me names, call me by my name. It’s Elizabeth, and that’s big because gosh, we coach her kids through this, but I’m going to tell you, I mean, my stomach turns and my heart races when I’ve got to do this with an adult, not on myself. So it is hard, and I think it’s just so much to celebrate that our kids are willing to do that. I think they really teach us quite a bit about conflict resolution. They don’t fear conflict. They jump right in, and we just can guide them with the solutions. Now, they may nudge us and encourage us to go, if you want things to go differently than you as an adult, have to also use your big voice and communicate to others how you wish to be treated.

Stephanie Landis (44:37):

I think that’s also another mindset shift that some other typical behavior management styles or discipline type styles is all about squashing conflict and being like, no, there’s no conflict, and you fall in line and we follow this. And conflict is seen as something that is negative and in conscious discipline. It’s used as teachable moments and ways to work through and problem solve. And that can be hard as adults who were taught that conflict is bad. We should avoid it. Everybody just stop fighting and be happy right now. Smile, I’ve got cookies. If we just stop fighting, we’re all going to feel good.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (45:19):

Yeah, there’s the toxic positivity. That’s how you get to toxic positivity, dodge conflict,

Stephanie Landis (45:25):

And hopefully we’re now, as we make this shift, raising a generation that can work through conflict instead of toxic positivity or just going on the internet and trolling each other or getting mad and feeling like there’s no point in working with the person because it’s just conflict or building a generation that can hopefully work through these feelings and have positive conflict resolution strategies.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (45:50):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the truth is nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I can’t wait for conflict to come on. Nobody does that. We avoid it. We blame others. We do all the things. Yeah. So yes, we do. And in conscious discipline through our lens, it’s about seeing conflicts as an opportunity to challenge yourself. It’s an opportunity for you to learn a different way. And it is really part of everything that we do in classrooms, of course, but also in homes, is teaching. So using conflict as a teaching moment, as you mentioned, and we can kind of think back to your own life and conflicts that you’ve had in your life, and you go at that moment, there were so hard. You struggled, you really wanted it to go away, but when you look back and you truly think about it, those events were huge things that have shaped who you are, what your skills are.

(46:50):

So instead of thinking, gosh, I should have never had that conflict, we probably look back and we go, as hard as it was at that moment, it really showed me something tremendous, a life lesson, so to speak. And yeah, conflict can do that, but I will say as a teacher, as conflict would happen in my classroom, the more I developed my conscious discipline skills, the less scary conflict was because I felt like, all right, I got a plan. I got some skills, I got a plan, and I can go in this direction with that conflict rather than I have no idea what to do. So up my skills, that helped tremendously. I

Stephanie Landis (47:32):

Will say there are some times when I’m like, we don’t really have time to dive all the way into this. You’re just have to put a pin in it and we’re going to work it out later. Otherwise, we would spend the whole day just conflict managing and then we’d never learn math.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (47:46):

Exactly, exactly, exactly. I agree.

Stephanie Landis (47:49):

But yes, you’re right. The more we can work in these and build these skills, the amount of time we spent conflict managing went down and down and down so that we didn’t have those moments as much. That’s the goal. At least

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (48:00):

That’s the goal. Yeah, absolutely. And every point of development is different. You’ve got more of those conflicts when they’re little, and then you have this period of time where you’re like, wow, the kids are getting along, and that might last two days or maybe last an afternoon or whatever. Just celebrate those. And then we go through adolescent years and there’s, there’s

Stephanie Landis (48:20):

Years and they get spicy again, and I’m like, nine, 10. Oh my,

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (48:24):

Yes, yes. I will say so quick, funny little something about the spicy. So our kids are four and a half years apart. I say kids, of course, they’re both adults. Our daughter, between the age of 13, 14, those years, it’s kind of a little bit wonky, and that’s because they’re going through a pruning process in the brain. It’s complete transformation in the brain, restructuring, remodeling, it’s messy. It’s all the things. And I remember our daughter got into that little funky spicy period of time, and then when slowly she got out of it, and it was about six months, about a six month period of time where she was out of it. My son wasn’t in it just yet, and it was like, wow. I mean, I even thought we could maybe have a third. It was just some crazy stuff right there. And then he got into his spicy, and both my husband and I just kind of looked at each other.

(49:25):

Well, it was great while it lasted. Yeah, so just hang in there as a parent because they do become lovelier as they grow into that prefrontal lobe. And they are, and really they are lovely. They are. We just have to be willing to understand and embrace the messy and embrace the moments because those are just wonderful opportunities to build that connection that does last for the rest of their lives. And it is so very important, and that’s why we’re listening to podcasts like this. We’re learning and reading books and getting into that because we so want to make sure that we’re doing the best that we can, and we’re becoming that parent that we’ve always dreamt we can be. It is possible. It is most definitely possible. I have hope.

Stephanie Landis (50:22):

I want to be respectful of your time. You’ve given us so much. It’s almost been an hour, but

Meredith Krimmel (50:26):

I know we do have one final question that Stephanie usually asks all of our guests. So Steph, you want to

Stephanie Landis (50:32):

Sure. At the end of each podcast, we ask our guest, if you have one piece of advice to give to the listeners. It can be on this topic or always carry an umbrella, whatever your advice is. We had one piece. What would you guess?

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (50:47):

Oh, that’s a great one. Yeah. The umbrella one is important too. Sometimes, unless the consequence of wet hair or frizzy hair doesn’t bother you. But I think a best fit of advice and something that I do remind myself over and over again, and that is being present, being in the moment, yes, the breathing, the oxygen to the brain that gets you in that moment. Because when we can pause and slow things down and slow life down, we do end up seeing the beautiful connection that we have in front of us. And it is just something to always celebrate no matter what age your child is, because sometimes we have older kids and we kind of go, oh, no, it’s too late. It’s never too late, because you’re still continuing to connect. So it would be present and in those moments and pause and digest life as much as possible.

Stephanie Landis (51:47):

I love that. That’s fantastic advice. Good

Meredith Krimmel (51:49):

Advice.

Stephanie Landis (51:50):

Even better than carrying an umbrella

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (51:53):

And carrying an umbrella.

Stephanie Landis (51:55):

We’re here in Houston and well, it rained a little bit recently, but it didn’t rain for three months, so nobody needs an,

Meredith Krimmel (52:01):

We’re all using our umbrellas for the sun.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (52:04):

Oh, yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. I was in Houston this summer. It was like, that’s a little bit, yeah, extra hot. But Well, thanks. This was really fun. I appreciate this. Thank you.

Meredith Krimmel (52:16):

This was great. Thank you. We

Stephanie Landis (52:17):

Appreciate you, and I love learning from everybody on the podcast. I mean, listening to people as guests is my favorite part of the job, so I appreciate your time and your knowledge.

Elizabeth Montero-Cefalo (52:27):

Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. It was so great to meet you all, and let me know if you have any questions or need anything. Yeah. And y’all have a great afternoon and stay in the ac. Thank you.

Meredith Krimmel (52:39):

You too. Enjoy your time home before you have to travel again.

Meredith Krimmel (52:42):

Thank you for listening to the UnBabbled Podcast. For more information on today’s episode, please see our episode description. For more information on the parish school, visit parish school.org. If you’re not already, don’t forget to subscribe to the Un Babbled Podcast on your app of choice. And if you like what you’re hearing, be sure to leave a rating and review. A special thank you to Andy Williams, Joanna Rissmiller, and Molly Weisselberg for all their hard work behind the scenes. Thanks again for listening.